Posted by: sean | November 3, 2007

Debating the one state solution

I’ve been debating, if you can call it that, some Israelis and a Palestinian about my firmly held belief in a one state solution

One of the Israelis has already called me an idiot and all Arabs monkeys. I highly recommend skipping his replies and reading Lirun’s and Nizo’s.

UPDATE: I’ve been locked out of the thread. So much for for an honest and respectable exchange of ideas. The exchanges I’ve had with Israelis in the blogosphere have left me more depressed than anything else.

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Responses

  1. dude.. what a drama queen.. you werent locked out of the thread – it was closed.. as much for your comments as for nobody’s..

    the post was about the right of return and yet all you could do was preach your dogma on a one state solution..

    as you do every single time you comment about anything..

    think south park for a moment and lets create a skit:

    “oh hi seanny how are you?”

    oh id be better if there was a one state solution in israstine..

    “yeah but seanny how are you feeling mate.. remember my question?”

    what question?!!? there is no question? you are racist!!! arabs and jews are one!! are you saying i cant follow your questions?? you are antidemocratic and denying me my right to diverge from every topic you raise – including my well being.. which mind you would be soo much better if there was a one state solution in israstine..

    “seanny buddy.. chum.. im trying to talk to you.. if you wont have the discussion there is no point..”

    lirun you’re a dangerous surfy loser who hides behind sneaky messages.. whateverrrrrrr

    quite a discussion mate..

    would have been fascinated to hear your thoughts on the relevance of the right of return with respect as part of a discussion.. really digging down into the essence.. but instead you threw accusations left right and centre.. ignored all attempts to collate responses to your full spectrum sling and came back with more..

    my blog wasnt created for that..

    nizo didnt like my handling of the situation and has now left the blog..

    and i think im done for a while..

    the deliberation now is whether to leave it online or delete it entirely..

    cant decide..

    your quite an inspiration man.. hope you dont have aspirations in diplomacy..

    :)

    take care

    wish you well

  2. First things first: concerning drama, I’m not quite sure if you’re supposed to be the pot or the kettle here, Lirun. Regardless, I can say that time and time again, the responses I get from you and other ostensibly peace-minded Israelis (putting aside entirely the outright racist rhetoric from your right-wing compatriots) have completely depressed me.

    A good friend of mine here often does conflict resolution training sessions with Israeli NGO types, and the stories he brings back are very similar to my experiences, which are not promising.

    In any case, I think if you’ll look back at my comments, you’ll see that I never once called you anything, much less “sneaky” or a “loser.” I did, however, describe you as “well-meaning,” even if I do find the idea of making an Arab’s citizenship in Israel contingent on pledging allegiance to a Jewish state repugnant and racist. (This has nothing to do with treason, and is not nor should be practiced in any democratic nation worthy of that designation.) Again, I think you’ll see that in that thread, if anyone was being called names, it was me: Arab monkey and idiot (times two) to quote your charming compatriots. And again, not once did you tell any Israelis on your blog that you didn’t want racial slurs thrown around.

    Next, your comment here implies that my comments were non sequiturs, although they were clearly about the right of return. If you’ll go back and read my first comment, you’ll see that I wrote the following:

    the binational state would keep both laws of return, ensuring that all Palestinian refugees could come back and/or be compensated and that all persecuted Jews could find a home in Israel/Palestine.

    Honestly, I don’t blame Nizo for not appreciating how you handled the conversation. I don’t appreciate it either, and that’s why I told you that I wouldn’t be reading your blog anymore.

    Finally, whether you decide to take your blog down or not is up to you — and frankly of little concern to me, because, like I said, I’m done with it. However, if you like writing it, it’d be unfortunate to stop doing so because of a difference of opinion. But that’s obviously your call.

  3. Israeli NGOs, like the Israeli state, often avoid certain human rights issues due to a common understanding about “Iraeliness”. Consequently, Lirun and his cohorts will simply not touch or just skirt issues like the rights of Palestinian Refugees (Law of Return, hint hint), and they thereby severely limit the possibilities for activism in Israel.

    Despite Lirun’s disposition as a “peace loving” Israeli, he can’t fathom how his very logic and perceptions are no different than Israeli state interests, despite his claims otherwise.

    In any case, so long as there are Israelis pushing to redefine Israel by highlighting its democratic as opposed to its Jewish character, then there’s a least a bit of hope for true reconciliation and peace.

    Yet, when peace-pushing Israelis like Lirun think that demanding Palestinian refugees to pledge service to Israel as a qualification for citizenship is a necessary good thing, then we know how depressingly existential the entire situation is..

    -km

  4. I was reading Lirun’s posts…
    People who surf together
    can live together my ass!! This guy is amazing…he would love to surf
    with them, but when it comes to real concessions the right and the
    left meet in Israel.

    LaoTzu said if he
    would give an advice to leaders, he would say (know when to stop!
    Don’t be with out grace…know that enough is enough…there will
    always be enough!!) But, I guess the Israelis have to experience
    that. Their dependence on brutal force will eventually destroy the
    very essence of their society. A system based on racial discrimination
    will eventually crumble. I was thinking that even if the Israelis were
    able to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian territories, this will not
    solve the bigger problem with Arab and Muslim region. This region
    might be subjugated today, but they are still 1 billion people. Israel
    cannot hold itself forever…a decision on a population level has to
    be made “Do we want to live here or not?” If they want to live here,
    then they have to be part of this region, not just a tool for foreign
    interference and power. It’s the complete tragic irony! The jews who
    lived under Islamic law where better off than that of Europe (Jews
    were discriminated against but their situation was better than
    christians here and was better than their situation in Europe). Jewish
    European intellectuals used to look at Islamic rule as a haven in
    comparison with European rule…it’s these same people who got
    discriminated against in Europe for being Semites come back to oppress
    their brethren as European colonists. Isn’t it the absurd result of
    5000 year of diaspora. It’s as if the Israelis haven’t got to terms
    with their identity and roots as being Semite!
    As for the palestinians, they are learning their lessons
    silently…and like the jews after the holocaust came to understand
    that only force and power (be it financial or military) is the
    guarantee against complete annihilation and that only their fists will
    guarantee them a place under the sun. So it’s violence that counts
    eventually and not UN resolutions or international tribunals.
    As soon as Israel comes to understand, that the un-educated peasants
    whom they kicked in 1948 are not as fools as they think and are like
    them humans who have their dreams and rights, will it be able to move
    forward and establish it self as a democratic state. As for the time
    being, the wrong doings and systematic violence being exerted on
    palestinians in this system will only complicate the situation further
    more…and the memory of these people will haunt -not just the Israeli
    society- but that of the Jewish consciousness for years to come!!!
    Furthermore, if they think the Arabs will forget, they are dreaming,
    because we all know it’s not happening…the racist perspective that
    Arabs understand force, will eventually fulfill itself where by the
    Arabs losing hope in a peaceful compromise and having nothing to
    lose more…will have every reason to fight!!
    In both cases, I think this racist arrogant Israeli perspective that
    refuses just resolution will lead either to an ethnic cleansing of
    Palestinians or another human disaster which is the annihilation of
    Israel (fulfilling their fear). While they are in power now, they
    think that peace is not in their interest because Arabs will get what
    they give them…but it’s severely short sighted. Time will judge!


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